The Webhook Support Group | talkingshop.dev

[00:00:00] Speaker: If anybody wanted to like, debate you or whatever, like, that'd be hilarious. I'd want to see, 'cause anytime anyone comes at you with a question like, oh, what about type sense? You literally break it down so systematically in the, like, most polite way possible. And I literally, I, I need to know if, like anyone else knows more about Phish.

[00:00:17] It's just like,

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[00:01:05] Speaker 2: There he is. What's up Tom?

[00:01:08] Speaker: Dude, you're the first man in here. You wanna jump on the mic? They call him Tom the streamer, by the way. Is it Neper? Neer Kapper, bro. You jumping on the stream. There he is. There he is. Come on buddy. Holy shit. I've been stressing out about this dude. I am such a fucking stress case, man.

[00:01:32] Yeah. Damn

[00:01:34] Speaker 3: dope man. It's all gonna be fine,

[00:01:36] Speaker: bro. This thing needs to go to the moon. Dude, we gotta take this shit to the moon. We need to get fucking Harley on this shit. You know what I mean? The

[00:01:45] Speaker 4: moon

[00:01:47] Speaker: dude, David, bro, I've been stressing all, dude. I've been literally since fucking Tuesday, I've been like, bro, I was just thinking about it so much.

[00:02:00] 'cause I had such a good time. I was like, this is gonna change everything. I'm changing the world out here. Changing the whole world. Fucking talked to Tom about it. He did. He gave you a whole streaming. He solutioned out a whole streaming situation for this whole thing. Shout. Oh yeah, we getting a ticker.

[00:02:19] Are we getting like live stock tickers going and everything? Tom, Tom. Let him know. Let him know what the fuck we got lined up, dude. Fucking let him know. We

[00:02:26] Speaker 3: got a whole bunch of shit lined up, man.

[00:02:29] Speaker: By the way, David, Tom does like streaming for churches and shit like that. Dude, he's a, oh, cool dude. He's, he does nothing but he is like, streaming is his whole thing, except he has an additional day job on top of that and an additional dev agency and that he also knows literally everything about streaming.

[00:02:49] Nice. It's just a hobby, man. It's just a hobby.

[00:02:53] Speaker 4: You're up there like this just ends. The people have started praying, started. A man has

[00:03:00] Speaker 3: to do something in his free time, right?

[00:03:03] Speaker: Yeah. I mean, you could, you could always hit, hit up. Where's

[00:03:06] Speaker 3: everybody else,

[00:03:07] Speaker: dude? Fuck if I know Tom. I was hoping, you know, I'm just glad fucking David is here.

[00:03:13] You know what I mean? We had, we had a decent amount of fucking RSVPs, but you know. Yeah.

[00:03:17] Speaker 4: We'll get it going. People are, you know what, dude,

[00:03:20] Speaker: it's a really heavy time right now, bro. Corley. Okay. I'm gonna be honest. I'm gonna be honest. Like, I think it's important to have a little bit of a bros vibe. Okay. And I know that's controversial.

[00:03:32] I know it's controversial. I know it's controversial. I know it's what I know. It's controversial. However, there is literally one exception in the entire community at the current moment and that that's Coralee and she's here, dude. So let's pull her in. We got, we got Coral Lee coming straight and direct out of France.

[00:03:54] Speaker 5: Hi gang.

[00:03:54] Speaker: Nice. We're international. What's up dude? Hello. It's popping off. By the way, how do you pronounce your name exactly In French and then like for like a dumb American gimme both versions.

[00:04:08] Speaker 5: So if you wanna say the French Way, it's. If you wanna say it for the dumb American, it's corny.

[00:04:13] Speaker: Why did you have to say dumb American like that?

[00:04:16] Like, just because said it

[00:04:18] Speaker 3: mean. I mean, she's got a point, man. She's got a point on the pronunciation one. Hey,

[00:04:22] Speaker: hey, listen man, I, I realize we got European time zones on this call, but we can't just be disrespected like that dude on our front, on our home, on our home court, dude, I mean, I can't get mad at Corley.

[00:04:35] She's literally, I'm gonna say, okay, tell me a person in the Shopify community more beloved than Corley. And I'll wait. You might say Gil, but I would say Gil is the goat of app development. But in terms of who is more beloved, who everybody just likes the most, you might say Liam is up there and Liam is up there, but Corley still defeats Liam.

[00:04:58] So I.

[00:05:01] Speaker 5: So that's nice.

[00:05:02] Speaker: No, that's, I'm, this is what I do, is I, I map out the ecosystem. Who's best at this? Who's best at that? David is the all time nicest guy slash At the same time, he literally sadistically, enjoys torturing SaaS vendors on phone calls. Like, you know, which, to be honest, it is a fun test. No, no, no.

[00:05:24] And the thing is, the thing is, it's justified. That's why he's still a genuinely nice guy, because torturing a SAS guy is actually the correct thing to do. It's God's work. You know what I mean? You can't let SAS guys get too comfortable on you, dude. You know, it's very fair. I agree. They're always trying to pitch something so co.

[00:05:47] No, I can't do the French. I was gonna try to do the French. I can't do it. I can speak Spanish. It's the R. You need to learn the R The R's too much. My wife is, it's

[00:05:56] Speaker 3: not that hard man. It's not the Holly Tom. Let's see.

[00:05:59] Speaker: You try do, you're not gonna raise her up with that bullshit Swedish accent. Whatever you got going.

[00:06:04] Where are you from again? Netherlands. The Netherlands. Netherlands. And it, and it's Ali. Nah, that sounded dumb. It's very easy. Coral did that. How did that sound? Did that sound dumb? It sounded very well. Very good. Geez, man. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I gotta, I got I,

[00:06:18] Speaker 2: okay, fine. Whatever. Whatever, Tom,

[00:06:21] Speaker 3: whatever, whatever, whatever miss.

[00:06:22] You know, as, as Dutchess go to France so often and our Belgium colleagues, et cetera, we know a bit or a bit about the French language.

[00:06:31] Speaker: Yeah. No, bro, I get it. I get it. You guys know more about languages and shit like that. I get it. I get it. You guys think you're better than us. We get it, dude. We get it. We understand.

[00:06:43] At the same time, we know that we're better than you, but we also know that there's a lot of nice things about all those countries that we need to learn from. Like, we all need to be taking two months vacation. We can all agree on that, right? True. Yep. Nobody's arguing that point, but me and David aren't gonna do it.

[00:07:00] Like David's gonna take, he had a sabbatical recently for like six weeks. We, what was it? Dude, you get six weeks every rescheduled it to next year. See,

[00:07:09] Speaker 4: see. But also, I have to know, I have to know, uh, what is it like being a Shopify employee today, coral? That's a good question.

[00:07:18] Speaker 5: Oh, it's, uh, it's surfing the wave of AI and, what can I say?

[00:07:24] I just, compared to freelancing, it's a blast. Like I'm working with, with a team. I get to work close to the product that I was using every day as a, as a freelancer. I also get to go to Canada more often, which is heck yeah. Nice.

[00:07:39] Speaker 2: Yeah. Nice, nice.

[00:07:40] Speaker 5: But yeah, no, it's, shout out Canada be seeing the beast from the inside, honestly.

[00:07:44] Like just, yeah. Being inside the mothership and see what's gonna ship. It's, it's, it's really nice.

[00:07:48] Speaker 4: Dude, like heck yeah. Do you have any like special dashboards you get to see that the public can't see for Black Friday today?

[00:07:55] Speaker 5: Yeah, many of those, of course,

[00:07:58] Speaker: dude, she's like, bro, I got dashboards on dashboards.

[00:08:01] I'm not going to tell you what the categories are of the dashboards. Corley, give us a little data. Tell us something about, by the way, do you know Corley is the least afraid of anybody I know that's moved community to Shopify in-house the least afraid of saying like the slightest, you know what I mean?

[00:08:19] Like the slightest non like trivial inside baseball detail. Like everyone is so terrified. It drives me nuts. It genuinely drives me nuts. Anyways, am I the only one losing my mind over this whole Shopify being secretive about everything thing. Because like when got

[00:08:40] Speaker 3: mate, you, you gotta put Jake in. He's asking to put in, man.

[00:08:43] Speaker: Fucking hell bro. I needed to get the squad in here, dude. I didn't know if the squad was coming together. Dude, I've been stressing Fucking Jake dude, by the way, cor Paul for the language. It's a little bit of like a, you know what I mean? It's a little rowdy group.

[00:08:59] Speaker 5: So good.

[00:08:59] Speaker: Yeah. Apologies, apologies. Would never speak like that in front of you.

[00:09:04] Obviously. Gotta have respect for the ladies. Jake, you're on mute dude. You're on fucking, you're on mute. Yeah, I'm, I'm here. I'm here. What's up dude? Where the fuck are my nuggies? Dude, you promised me chicken nuggets. I literally gave you a gem of a backlink,

[00:09:20] Speaker 7: dude. On the site. That doesn't work. What are you

[00:09:24] Speaker: bro?

[00:09:25] What are you talking

[00:09:26] Speaker 7: about, dude? No, I'm, I'm so serious. Go to Talking Shop. Do dev without, I get it without www. No, I, and it fails.

[00:09:35] Speaker: No, I understand. You type some bullshit in manually.

[00:09:38] Speaker 7: Oh,

[00:09:38] Speaker: no. But literally click no, no, click on the link from any Twitter profile. Yeah,

[00:09:44] Speaker 7: I saw it.

[00:09:44] Speaker: I saw

[00:09:45] Speaker 7: it. I saw it.

[00:09:46] Speaker: God damn. Jake, why are you trying to torture me, bro?

[00:09:49] Speaker 7: I, I got on, I got on DoorDash. You don't even have McDonald's. I didn't see a McDonald's.

[00:09:53] Speaker 8: I thought that was so funny. Dude, I thought you were gonna, literally,

[00:09:57] Speaker 7: you have everything but McDonald's. There's so many restaurants.

[00:10:01] Speaker: I thought you were gonna literally send hundreds. So like, I left the house and I was like playing pickleball with my daughter and I told her, I go.

[00:10:07] I go, I have to text my wife because if somebody knocks at the door at night, like she's get, you know, they're gonna get nervous if they're not expecting it. I would be like, it's a long story. And then I explained to my daughter, she's like, what happened? And she saw me like laughing when I was sending the text.

[00:10:21] And so she's like, what happened? I had explain the whole thing. I had this friend, he's gonna send me chicken nuggets. But anyways, you'll

[00:10:27] Speaker 7: get them when you, you make it to New York, that's, I'll pick you up to the damn bro. We, we have this beautiful new McDonald's. They just built it across the street from my apartment.

[00:10:36] I'll, I'll take you out to dinner.

[00:10:40] Speaker: Dude. I literally love a new McDonald's. And by the way, and the Europeans are gonna also talk, trash me for this too. But I love McDonald's. Everybody loves McDonald's. All right. Somebody's typing extra. Oh, we agree. Don't

[00:10:51] Speaker 3: worry. We agree.

[00:10:52] Speaker: All right, thank you. All right. See that's what I'm talking about.

[00:10:55] Oh yeah. We're asking Corley about dashboards. So can you tell us any dashboard data, anything internally?

[00:11:00] Speaker 5: Absolutely not. Damn

[00:11:03] Speaker: dude. Okay. Maybe she's not quite as brave as I, as I initially thought. That's okay. That's okay. I would do, I would be doing the same thing

[00:11:11] Speaker 5: I think for Black Friday. Like it's the most important data is the one that we see like on the Vagos sphere.

[00:11:16] Like everything is there of course. Whereas you

[00:11:18] Speaker: need Of course. No, that's true. No, no, no, that's true. But obviously if you have internal data, that means there's some utility to it.

[00:11:27] Speaker 5: We're just

[00:11:28] Speaker: very curious. That's it.

[00:11:29] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:11:30] Speaker 5: And the number I'm waiting for is the one at the end, like how much DMV was processed over the whole Black Friday, cyber Monday weekend.

[00:11:37] I think like every year I'm waiting for that number. Dude.

[00:11:40] Speaker: Coral's like, I'm all about business. I'm all about cash. I'm all about money in the bank. She's like that's, it's the

[00:11:46] Speaker 5: contrary. That's it's the contrary. I just find it so impressive every year.

[00:11:50] Speaker: No, it is. It's insane. Kobey doing like on Black Friday, like is he like, is he just like gaming or something and like allowing the system to run?

[00:11:59] Is he like building open source? Like is he running around? Like going nuts. I'm always trying to figure out what Toby's up to. Like I'm always trying to imagine him. What the hell is he working on?

[00:12:11] Speaker 5: Ask him.

[00:12:12] Speaker: I I, one of these days I never, my friend talked to him in person last editions or the one before that and he texted me.

[00:12:19] 'cause he is like, dude, I'm talking to Toby right now. And, and Toby was out on the floor for like an hour or something like that. And I was in some seminar, but I didn't wanna leave. And then anyways, I was like, but honestly I didn't even have anything to ask him. Like I had no questions to ask him. I'm like, he's too smart.

[00:12:33] He's God alien here. Smart. Like there's no point. But now I feel like I have some questions. I have at least one question to ask him, which is about the webhook deliverability guarantee. But, um,

[00:12:44] Speaker 5: oh, I saw your tweets about that.

[00:12:45] Speaker: Yeah, I think,

[00:12:46] Speaker 5: I think it was you.

[00:12:46] Speaker: It's a little weird. It's a little, it's a little odd.

[00:12:49] Dude. I thought, I think Nick dmd, but he didn't request to talk, dude. What? The Nick is such a mess dude. Are you guys, I

[00:12:58] Speaker 2: think he said he, he, it comes soon. Oh, okay. Good. Okay, good. Okay. Right on. Right on.

[00:13:03] Speaker: Oh dude. Tom, how did your day go today? Dude? You did a street, you did a live stream today?

[00:13:08] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. We did a, a dual live stream, so to TikTok and Instagram, and then a whole bunch of just the, the regular Black Friday stuff where last minute fixes come in.

[00:13:18] So I literally just got home 20 minutes ago from work. So like five before 11:00 PM

[00:13:26] Speaker 2: Nice.

[00:13:27] Speaker 3: So yeah, crazy long

[00:13:29] Speaker: day, dude. You have to tell everybody about the crazy ass Chinese subsidiary company that you work for. Dude, that

[00:13:38] Speaker 3: was so funny when we were talking about it the other day. Yeah, yeah. So basically I worked for like a Chinese company, right?

[00:13:44] So opo, the smartphone brands, it's very curious how they set it up in, uh, basically. In Europe, but you know, it's just, it's OPO for everybody else, so it's good.

[00:13:54] Speaker: Good. By the way, I had never heard of this word, like ever. And he said it's like the third biggest smartphone company in the entire world, right?

[00:14:02] Is that what you said?

[00:14:03] Speaker 3: Yeah. Which is why it depends a bit on, on like the quarter of course. But we're generally in the

[00:14:08] Speaker: top five. No, but that's in because that's great because that's insane. Probably 'cause the Chinese market is so huge. That true? Yeah. That's like, but then you got that, you got defensive when I said something about like, you had a problem with your phone.

[00:14:22] And I was like, ah, that's 'cause it's an off-brand phone. And you're like, no, it isn't. Yeah, I, I've done all the research. The specs are top tier.

[00:14:30] Speaker 3: I mean, it's kind, kind of my job to know about if shit's on our, of course, on our phones are wrong, yes or no. That makes sense. So I was like, no, this is not us, man.

[00:14:39] Speaker: No, no, no, no. That makes sense. That makes sense because I, I don't really know shit about specs, you know what I mean? I'm like, Hey, which version I'm on version five. Lemme get version six. You know what I mean?

[00:14:48] Speaker 3: Oh damn. Luke, are you one of those persons that just goes to the Apple store every year and buy some new iPhone and be done with it?

[00:14:55] Speaker: Nah, dude, I'm, I'm broke, dude. I'm a broy when it comes to phones. Dude. I, I'll wait two, three years and get one on back market.com. Dude, I get a used one for like 300. I'm like, whatever costs like 300 bucks is the one I'm getting into. Dude, Luke, holy shit. I haven't seen Luke in a hot minute. Do you guys know Luke?

[00:15:16] I don't. I don't know about the other guys. Luke's, what's his name? Luke's

[00:15:20] Speaker 7: very familiar.

[00:15:21] Speaker: Luke Sport. Dude, I met him in Toronto. I seen him on the Gadget Discord. He's not on Twitter, dude. He's weird. I guess he has a private account. He needs to get his ass on Twitter. 'cause he's funny as hell. Like there Luke.

[00:15:35] What is happening? Fucking hell, bro. Why do you, how do you fucking ghost on? Like why don't you use Twitter, dude? Like I'm not on the gadget discord. I literally can't talk to your dumb ass. And you're the fucking chillest, funniest fucking guy at Toronto every single year. And then you fucking disappear from the universe for 364 days.

[00:15:56] Dude. Fucking, and you have a Twitter account. Just make it a regular Twitter account, dude.

[00:16:01] Speaker 9: I'm just a ghost, as you said, but I don't even use Gadget Discord anymore. I left that now, dude.

[00:16:06] Speaker: Are you like a white nationalist? Like why would you have a private, like who says some wild shit to like get their Twitter account?

[00:16:14] Like anybody who has a Twitter private

[00:16:16] Speaker 8: account like Tom too, bro. Whatever the fuck you got into, because I've done it too. Like I said, some controversial shit. I was like, I gotta go private for a minute,

[00:16:25] Speaker 9: but I'm more of like a LinkedIn guy now. But I know you've deleted your LinkedIn bro. I

[00:16:29] Speaker: literally popped off and I haven't gone back in whatever, it's been four or five, six days.

[00:16:35] And bro, my mind is clear. It's like when people say they like stopped doing drugs or something like that, like I feel like I can think straight, you know what I mean? My mood has improved and I get twitchy about it. 'cause I'll check Twitter and then I'll like post some dumb shit and I'll be like, oh, I have to go copy and paste the LinkedIn, forget for maximum reach.

[00:16:55] And then doing that is just, it just like, I don't know, it kind of like slows your brain. I don't know. Like just focusing on Twitter. For me. I don't know. It's just better for me, dude. I don't

[00:17:05] Speaker 9: know if Twitter's just like purely, it's just, I just, I, I just observe. That's all I do with Twitter. Why don't you talk on Twitter, dude?

[00:17:13] Like, I, I dunno. It's just, I don't feel like it has that much of an audience. I feel like LinkedIn's probably more of a place, it's not like the forums and all that. Maybe. Sorry, I just saw Talk Talk's, DM and I got distracted. Say it again about the forums? Yeah, I mean, like, obviously LinkedIn's a good place to kind of chat now, but if not, maybe the forums as well.

[00:17:31] I know some of you guys probably aren't too big on it. I've, it's been very controversial with like, you know, the, the shutdown of Slack and then like, moving to the forums. I've personally been quite a bit of an advocate for it. Like, oh, a hundred percent. I love the forums.

[00:17:43] Speaker: Oh, a hundred percent dude. I mean.

[00:17:45] A hundred percent. Dude. Dude, every time I post a question, I see some other random staff member reply. Like they're adding staff, like they're adding support staff to that shit, dude. Like there's so many product managers on there now. Like

[00:17:56] Speaker 9: I see so many people say like, oh, I've not like received a reply, you know, like in five minutes.

[00:18:00] And they're like straight up. They're like, oh, this is awful. You know, like, but it's a forum at the end of the day. Like I would have that any day over all the fucking, excuse my French, everyone. No, no, no, no. All the, it's that type of vibe, dude. Fucking go

[00:18:12] Speaker: for

[00:18:13] Speaker 9: it. All the cunts that fucking message me on the slack saying, can I have a job?

[00:18:17] Speaker: Like, bro, go fuck yourselves, everyone, bro, get up bro. Delete your LinkedIn right now. Fucking make your look, make your shit public. We'll retweet that shit and get things going. And by the way, David, why are you so quiet, dude? You're the number fucking number two fucker in charge here. Dude. You gotta chime in on some bullshit, dude.

[00:18:35] Speaker 4: Listen, it's Black Friday and you yelled at about someone typing. That was me, so that's why I am muted. Why do you type so loud, dude? You gotta type powerfully

[00:18:47] Speaker 9: just like, you know, walk hard, dude. What time? Well, what time zone is everyone in now? I mean, I'm in obviously London and it's like 20 past 10 in the evening.

[00:18:55] I'm, I'm currently eating a pizza dude. It is fucking

[00:18:57] Speaker: great dude. Fucking, uh, there's me and Jay, actually three in Europe, three in the US and s is probably out in India. I just invited his ass. He probably didn't even see it to speak. Dude s is a, is a little, little menace dude. He is always talking shit.

[00:19:16] But he's smart as hell. Yeah, he, he's, he always is. He's a smart Are we all? He's a smart cookie, but he is a little too big for his britches, but it's okay. 'cause he's gonna build some big ass app. He's gonna get rich. It's all good. He's going to, you know ts What's up dude? Well, you are talking about time.

[00:19:31] It's fucking 4:00 AM in the morning for me.

[00:19:36] He's like, what the fuck are you? What are you? Okay. I can't say that word. What are you guys afraid of? What are you guys worried about, bro? I like, I, I'm not gonna lie, I saw that tweet. India isn't for beginners. And I'm like, okay, I gotta give 'em that. Dude. That's some true shit. Like they're wor, they're staying up until five in the morning every night.

[00:19:55] Like, that's rough, dude. What are you working on, man? You still working on that, that hemp site or what?

[00:20:00] Speaker 6: Uh, man.

[00:20:02] Speaker: I, I would rather not talk about that one on the

[00:20:04] Speaker 8: public space. Man, that shit ran to fire. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. My bad. That was a bad, bad. And for, but hey, you, you do what you gotta do.

[00:20:15] Speaker: This is why you gotta get prepaid.

[00:20:16] I don't know if you ever had payment. I don't know. Generally speaking, 'cause to me, the only thing that makes a project go from like, it sucks to like, I want to kill myself. It sucks. Is like if you don't get paid. You know what I mean? That's why I always do prepay, because then otherwise you're chasing shit around and whatever.

[00:20:30] But, um,

[00:20:31] Speaker 9: well I do a lot of that work through store tasker now, which kind of, you know, gets all the money in escrow, which is pretty nice. To be fair. Man,

[00:20:37] Speaker: fuck store tasker, dude. I applied to them. They declined my shit. And, and, and skill. Skill shit. Yeah. You know what? To be honest, to be honest. It was at the time, I really didn't know shit, but I knew I was gonna figure it out.

[00:20:50] I did some video like they made me do a video fucking thing and I'm like, yeah, no, that's

[00:20:55] Speaker 9: normal. Yeah, it's not, it's it's not all that great though, because they take so many, so much in fees. Like I figured out lately. It's, it's insane how much money they take, especially for like me in Europe, like once you've done like your conversion fees, you know, like into pounds or euros, and then you like do your local like taxes.

[00:21:12] It's insane how much money you lose, dude.

[00:21:15] Speaker: Are you still picking up projects for two grand and knocking 'em out an hour and a half? Like, or what Dude? Yeah.

[00:21:21] Speaker 6: Fuck yeah. Chris is my best friend.

[00:21:26] Speaker 8: You're a beast.

[00:21:27] Speaker: Wait, so No, but seriously, what is your effective hourly rate? Because honestly I was skeptical. First, I was jealous, then I was skeptical 'cause I'm over here billing a hundred bucks an hour. Then I was skeptical that actually you just, it was that one feature that you kind of got lucky and then like other features you, you're effective hourly rate was like fucking lot lower than that.

[00:21:49] Like do you know, or is it literally up there? Like are you literally, I

[00:21:53] Speaker 9: generally do about. I mean, 'cause obviously we're still tax obviously because you lose the fees and that I generally work around about $140 an hour kind of vibe, you know, just to kind of cover those fees and that. No, I know. Even then though, like once obviously the fee goes out, then the conversion to pounds and then obviously the tax I have to pay here in the UK it No, but it still isn't that much.

[00:22:12] No, but I'm saying,

[00:22:13] Speaker: but like you told me you got a $2,000 project done in, in an hour, so are you Yeah, there's some, there's some

[00:22:19] Speaker 9: out there you can get super lucky on. I mean like Yeah, but not all, A lot of the time, not all, a lot of the time now with ai, like it's, it's got to the point where like if the client provides a good enough brief, you can literally throw that shit into Cursor and say, my client wants this and it'll do a POC in 10 minutes.

[00:22:33] And you'll be like, yeah, this is gonna be five hours of work and you get, you get paid, you know? Right,

[00:22:37] Speaker: right. Okay. Right. Totally. We need to talk more Black Friday, shit. Like I haven't looked at any of the visualizations yet. I've just been working on stuff. Has anybody looked at it? Is it good? Like, I'm sure it's, how much money

[00:22:50] Speaker 7: did your brand make today?

[00:22:51] About about a hundred mil. Which brand? Yeah, just about. Wait, wait, wait, wait. How

[00:22:58] Speaker: much did you make today?

[00:23:00] Speaker 7: He just, he just made a casual a hundred pounds.

[00:23:04] Speaker 4: Dude,

[00:23:07] you'll say side. It's like, it's like not super crazy today. I feel like. Nice. It's good, but it's not, it's not amazing. I don't know. Nice if anyone has any other little nuggets. Did I see saw

[00:23:20] Speaker 7: the

[00:23:20] Speaker 4: No

[00:23:21] Speaker 7: Commerce guy was posting that? It looks like things are up this year. I wanna find his tweet and link it in the thread, but across the brands I work with at Proton, everyone is down year over year.

[00:23:34] What's newcomers?

[00:23:35] Speaker: What's No. Oh no Commerce at K, K and O. He posted like a KO Yeah. Aggregate data. Yeah,

[00:23:40] Speaker 7: they, yeah, they have a like A-B-F-C-M tracker of all their aggregates. Got it.

[00:23:44] Speaker: All your clients are down His name.

[00:23:46] Speaker 7: Oh, his name is Jeremy. Or Jeremy. Jeremy. Yeah. That's, that's why Yeah. Everyone except one is, is down year over year.

[00:23:54] Oh shit. Uh, we'll see how the day closes though. It was a really slow start this morning. Wow. Like we expected it to peak around 10 or 11 and for a couple they didn't peak until two or three, which was, you know, two hours ago. Right.

[00:24:10] Speaker: So do you talk about, are you allowed to talk about your other clients?

[00:24:12] 'cause I know you have Rainbow, you know, you have the wallet one, I can't remember the Wallet one. Is this pretty sweet site. Do you talk about any of the other ones or is it just all ghost

[00:24:20] Speaker 7: mode? It varies because for a lot of them you subcontract in some way. Right. And so I don't have rights for marketing or anything.

[00:24:28] Speaker: Right. Okay. Gotcha. Oh, gotcha. So you got some big boys. You, you work through other agencies that basically sub to you. 'cause they don't know what they, what the hell they're doing with that type of scale. Yeah, that's most of our, our brand work is,

[00:24:41] Speaker 7: is sub stuff.

[00:24:43] Speaker: Nice dude and layers. What it's fucking chugging along or what?

[00:24:48] Speaker 7: Chugging along. We're not gonna hit our target billion searches today. We're damn bro. We're right around 700 million collection page views and search age right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay,

[00:25:03] Speaker: let me ask Corley a question if she's still there. It's a yes or no question. It is not gonna reveal, reveal any inside information in terms of Shopify enterprise search, right?

[00:25:11] Like Shopify has the search app, right? So is it fair to say that they need to eventually make an acquisition of, for Shopify Enterprise search.

[00:25:21] Speaker 5: No idea. That's not my area. You trained this. Come

[00:25:24] Speaker: on.

[00:25:25] Speaker 9: It goes insane. I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump in here, I'm gonna jump in here. Like, I remember there, there was an announcement about that dude that joined obviously Shopify that I don't know what he did, but wasn't he like, head of search at some sort of company?

[00:25:36] Like, what is going on there? Like, I think when is that gonna become reality for us all? Like, and when, when you search and discovery gonna gonna actually be fucking good, dude, I don't. So

[00:25:45] Speaker 7: search, search and discovery has improved a lot over the past few months. Um, it, it needs to become,

[00:25:52] Speaker 9: it needs to become competition for all.

[00:25:54] I mean, apologies, Jake, I know you've got layers out there, but when's it gonna become competition for like some of these other third parties?

[00:26:01] Speaker: No, they're gonna have to acquire, they're gonna have to competition. That's my whole point. They're gonna solve for the 80% use case. I don't think they're gonna pull it off,

[00:26:08] Speaker 9: but they, but they obviously brought this guy in there, didn't they?

[00:26:11] I can't honestly, I can't remember like who it was, but yeah,

[00:26:14] Speaker 7: they, they purchased, uh, that AI company. But it's just like subscriptions and stuff. They'll never kill that ecosystem. Yeah, I don't,

[00:26:22] Speaker 6: yeah, it seems,

[00:26:23] Speaker 7: from my perspective, they've stopped reaching out to most of the enterprises trying to pitch them search now, about two years ago, they were going really hard, uh, trying to pitch different search and merchandising solutions.

[00:26:35] But, uh, the last one that I heard of was like back in February and it wasn't, wasn't very appealing to the group. They demoed it to.

[00:26:44] Speaker 9: One of the big things is, I mean, it's probably a bit off tangent here, but what they all need to do is, is, I mean, I've, I've worked with now a brand that is using a, a platform called Tagless, which is great.

[00:26:54] This is obviously on the merchandising side. Apologies if we're a bit off topic, but No go. It's still kind of a little bit relevant. But what's great about like Tagless is that they obviously, essentially though they just use the collection, reorder kind of endpoint to do what they need to do. But the beauty of that is that it's all handled server side and obviously through liquid.

[00:27:11] So there's no client side going on, which it's fucking fantastic, you know, like, but here's the thing, but we need that on, we need that for search now though, as well.

[00:27:19] Speaker: But here's the thing, dude, I want us to spend enough time to drill into any particular specific that whatever this other alternative is, and I want to see how Jake architected it.

[00:27:29] And I, I'll bet, I bet a hundred bucks right now that his is better. And maybe I'm wrong, but we gotta fi figure it out. So, so let's, I, I say

[00:27:37] Speaker 7: our renting. Is faster than the server side rendering and liquid, even their edge rendering blind side. But the reorder also only supports a single sort order where it also doesn't work past 25 to 50,000 products.

[00:27:53] And so there's a, a cap there. You know, you get your featured sort order and then six months later you want to go add a highest rated or lowest rated. They have no solution for you.

[00:28:05] Speaker 9: So you've also got the 5,000 product limit as well, I guess. Which Shopify, which sucks.

[00:28:09] Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah.

[00:28:10] Speaker 9: The filter that is,

[00:28:12] Speaker: yeah, like, so basically that's what I'm talking about, bro.

[00:28:14] I like,

[00:28:14] Speaker 7: I think there's a piece of the market for anyone. And dude,

[00:28:17] Speaker: I'm telling you guys, there's no, Jake is a literal genius dude. He's humble about it, but he is the guy that is gonna build this shit, dude. I just can tell and like. Get anyone else to, to debate search architecture? Let's see, let's see what they got.

[00:28:34] Dude, I'm telling

[00:28:34] Speaker 9: you guys, Jake, I need to hit you up on LinkedIn and if you've got time, I'd love a demo. I mean, I've, I've used a lot of them like Vu, Algolia, and Valdo. But yeah, if you've ever got some time, I'd love a bit of a demo. Like, yeah, by the way, I need, Lucas is

[00:28:47] Speaker 7: listening to this and, uh, you can get harassed by email immediately.

[00:28:54] Speaker: I want commissions on all this shit. No, I, I don't want shit, to be completely honest. Like in the past I've made intros and I've been like, oh yeah, lemme see if I can get a percentage and, and it just feels grimy. So I'm like, I don't want that. Like I gotta, I got a plan to make some cash money, but I'm just telling you guys, dude, Jake is building this shit and I don't know.

[00:29:12] I think it's interesting.

[00:29:13] Speaker 7: I mean,

[00:29:15] Speaker: because you have some of the biggest brands,

[00:29:16] Speaker 7: but I hate search. I hate search so much,

[00:29:19] Speaker: bro. That's the thing. Merchandising

[00:29:20] Speaker 7: is my thing.

[00:29:22] Speaker: Okay. But you have to do both, right? Or you just do merchandising?

[00:29:25] Speaker 7: You do. No, you, you have to do both. Yeah.

[00:29:27] Speaker: Yeah. So like

[00:29:28] Speaker 7: that's why it took so long to go to market.

[00:29:30] Speaker: Yeah, dude. And that's why you're gonna throw in the towel after two years, dude. Instead of fucking going all the way for a Shopify acquisition because you are like, you know, you're like a genius but you burn out after like a couple years. 'cause I have the same, well I'm not a genius, but I have the same burnout thing.

[00:29:46] Speaker 7: Yeah. We gotta start our, what was it? The ai, AI agency. Yeah. Already got new better ideas,

[00:29:53] Speaker 2: dude. Yeah. We'll have to, we'll have to. Yeah, we'll have to chat. Nice

[00:29:58] Speaker: dude. Dick, I invited you to speak dude, you're late. You don't even request an invite, dude. Sorry. Anyways, okay. Uh, what are the topics, dude? David, come on man.

[00:30:09] What are we talking, what are the Black Friday stuff? Are we talking about. Somebody gave me a topic. Who's coming to Toronto next year? Oh dude. I'm definitely hyped for Toronto,

[00:30:19] Speaker 9: but we gotta talk about black. I, it's exciting. That's, bro, Callen, that's the only time that me and you meet up. So it's always dude.

[00:30:25] Speaker: Yeah, dude, I'm gonna, I wanna just randomly fly out to New York and hang out with a few people. Like, just make it come to London. No, you come to New York, like, let's meet, let's meet in New York, dude. Just like one night, like a random Saturday, dude. We'll just get like, you know, a handful of people together.

[00:30:41] Just hang out. People down are too

[00:30:43] Speaker 7: keen to come into the US right now.

[00:30:46] Speaker 9: What? Oh dude, it can't be much worse than the United Kingdom. That's fair.

[00:30:51] Speaker 7: That is a very fair point,

[00:30:53] Speaker: dude. Yeah, I saw something about a shooting or something like that. I didn't even look it up dude. I was like, here we go again. Was there a shooting yesterday?

[00:31:01] There was no, you're not before.

[00:31:04] Speaker 9: Oh, I dunno about the United Kingdom, but it's just fucked either way. Especially with like, with, you know, like finance wise and all that.

[00:31:10] Speaker 2: What do you mean finance wise?

[00:31:11] Speaker 9: Well, they just dropped like their new budget, you know, which is like where they have all that stuff, but the taxes just increase and everything.

[00:31:17] Yeah. It's just not really great. Oh dude. Yeah, it wasn't great anyway. And it's just got worse, dude. Our

[00:31:21] Speaker: money is getting inflated to shit, dude. It's gonna be worth, you know what I mean? It's in inflation rate is off the charts. But dude, AI is the only thing that's gonna fix inflation. 'cause I, I spend time thinking about that or in healthcare, all these things that are skyrocketing.

[00:31:35] AI is gonna fix all that shit, dude. It's the only thing that can, by creating extraordinary amounts of leverage and wealth, that's literally the solution.

[00:31:44] Speaker 7: When's it gonna help me do my laundry?

[00:31:48] Speaker: No, literally Jake robots are coming out. There's a robotic arm for $5,000 and robotic arms can probably do that.

[00:31:55] Jake, that's called your girlfriend.

[00:32:00] Speaker 7: Man, if I, if I don't, I don't wanna buy new clothes every week. I need them not shrunken.

[00:32:07] Speaker: I was just about to apologize to Corley and I saw she popped off. Shout out Corley. We got,

[00:32:12] Speaker 9: yeah, no, I made sure I made sure that she wasn't here.

[00:32:14] Speaker: We got, we got, we got a little rowdy. No, that was cool. I was busting her chops about inside info.

[00:32:20] They are so secretive. Dude, it's so weird to me. 'cause Toby and Harley are very open, authentic people, but I understand they a policy because they don't wanna leak information because blah, blah, blah. But is it, is it just me? Like, you guys know the people that went from community to in-house and they won't tell you Jack shit?

[00:32:38] Not even in a dm. They won't even hint at it. Like

[00:32:41] Speaker 7: it's totally destroyed. It is like any, any leak or anything gets picked apart by the community and then they never ship anything. Uh, it's, uh, I don't know. I think Shopify subscriptions years ago, they wanted the community so involved in building that, that it, uh, it didn't launch like three times.

[00:33:05] Interesting. So you think it's fundamentally a good thing

[00:33:07] Speaker: that they Yeah,

[00:33:08] Speaker 7: I think so.

[00:33:09] Speaker: Really? All right. I'm just so building public, dude. I just like believe in it. And I feel like Toby does that. Like he's writing open source things and he is like, I don't know. And he, and, and he did that letter, like the whole AI letter, and that got leaked.

[00:33:24] Like that's the epitome of you kept something private that, but instead in the alternate universe, it was public. And it had an extraordinarily good event.

[00:33:35] Speaker 9: Was it private? It was, was it private though? Was that not, was that That's what you said though. Was it not?

[00:33:38] Speaker: Yeah. He sent a private internal email or whatever saying, yo, y'all gotta use AI tools.

[00:33:45] Right.

[00:33:45] Speaker 9: But is this not, is this not just being publicity though, is again though, just Oh dude, dude. But this is what they do though. This is what they, this is what these guys do, Toby, actually, you're

[00:33:54] Speaker 7: right, you're right. No, that's, that's a really good point. That's a really, there's no better way to, it creates than, than the fake league

[00:34:02] Speaker: dude,

[00:34:03] Speaker 9: you guys are conspiracy theorists.

[00:34:05] Nah, nah. Toby is, it creates noise. It creates noise. That's what people wanna hear then. Like it creates a conversation. No, but

[00:34:11] Speaker: Toby is a very honest, like overly nerdy on the spectrum. Super honest person. That's just who he is. He's not Machiavellian like that. There's people that are Machiavellian on a different spectrum within the company.

[00:34:25] Obviously one of them leaked it and it ended up being good, but he himself didn't fucking plot that shit out, dude. There's no way. Let's say what, Nick, let's tell you what Nick

[00:34:33] Speaker 9: has to say. He now, he is

[00:34:34] Speaker: finally here. Is he? Dude, he won't, he doesn't know how to turn on his speaker and Nick talk tries to talk shit about Toby too.

[00:34:42] He tries to talk shit about Toby too, but I already let him know he can't talk shit about Toby. Shut up, Colin. He's here. He is talking. Yeah. Well he can talk. He, he can fucking needs to turn his volume off. Can you hear me? Barely dude. Yasu.

[00:34:55] Speaker 11: Yasu. Yes, man. Yes. Malaka. What the fuck

[00:34:59] Speaker 9: does that malaka? What the fuck language are you

[00:35:02] Speaker 8: guys talking, dude, doing

[00:35:06] Speaker 11: Len's just been, I was listening for like five minutes. I hear is call talk mad game. Turn

[00:35:14] Speaker: your vol, Nick. Turn your volume up, dude. Are you in a club somewhere? Like where the hell are you? Dude, you're, no, you can, nobody can hear you. And I'm old as shit, so I can't hear shit. Let me get my EarPods weather.

[00:35:27] Dude, he's probably like just in the bathroom with his phone like six feet away. Did you guys see him with tweet that he does not use GitHub for anything? No. He uses, yeah, we've all learned this when he's fucking lost so much of his, his stuff, he uses no version control for an entire year and then he loses all his shit.

[00:35:48] Like I bro is a caveman dude, I, I push every three hours maximum just 'cause I'm anxious about it, bro. Lost a year's worth of work. And here's the kicker. At the end of it, he is like, nah, it's all good. He is

[00:36:02] Speaker 8: like, whatever. No big deal. Like fucking,

[00:36:07] Speaker 11: can you hear me or not? Is it better? Uh, it's okay. It's, I'll turn my volume up.

[00:36:11] Alright. I mean in my defense, like, fuck it, I guitar, right? I can't with you.

[00:36:21] Speaker: What else? That

[00:36:21] Speaker 2: shop line.

[00:36:22] Speaker: Is that all you got to say, dude? That's all. You got to contribute to the conversation. All right. Nick's popped off. You never know, dude. Nick is such a wild card. What were we talking about before? He's so rudely interrupted. Dude,

[00:36:33] Speaker 7: you were gonna tell us more conspiracy theories, I think.

[00:36:36] Speaker 8: Oh,

[00:36:37] Speaker 7: oh, actually William, William is here. We need to get William in here.

[00:36:41] Speaker: Let's see about the Black Friday. Fuck William dude. Fuck William. He never wants to fucking commit to shit, dude. He's 40 minutes late. Fucking get his ass in here. Fucking talking about, he's DMing me. Talking about I can't. Dude, I'm gonna invite you Rocky too, if you're chilling.

[00:36:55] He is like, I'm not sure. She's probably surfing

[00:36:57] Speaker 7: or something.

[00:36:58] Speaker: Dude

[00:36:59] Speaker 7: was always chilling,

[00:37:00] Speaker: dude, bro. Like he's still, we're supposed to go surfing dude, on the weekend. And this, this buddy thinks that everybody can surf on a Wednesday, on a random Wednesday. Dude, I, I'm, I, I gotta, I gotta Where

[00:37:14] Speaker 7: are you surfing at in Texas?

[00:37:16] Speaker: Dude, there's an indoor surf park in Waco, an hour away from us.

[00:37:20] Speaker 7: Indoor surfing?

[00:37:22] Speaker: No, no, not indoor.

[00:37:23] Speaker 11: Not indoor. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I was, um. My fucking girlfriend, one of my airports, bro, and, uh, was talking up to her, her, her computer upstairs, and she's watching the fucking Kardashians. So while I'm talking to you, absolute such a fucking crash out, dude.

[00:37:40] I'm fucking Kardashian. I was like, what's going, this shit I thought was getting trolled.

[00:37:46] Speaker 6: What's what happening, man?

[00:37:47] Speaker: Dude, Kim Kardashian is literally Jezebel in the Bible. Literally the fucking, like the devil's plan type of shit to ruin an entire generation, bro. Like,

[00:37:57] Speaker 11: yeah. You know, I, I'm not, I'm not a fan.

[00:37:58] Yeah, I'm

[00:37:59] Speaker: not a fan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nah, she's, she's a problem, dude. All right. We're, we're going, we're covering all our bases, but you guys, we gotta talk Black Friday, dude. I feel like we need relevant content for the masses to consume as far as gimme some Black Friday keywords. Gimme some stats. Like, I, I haven't even looked at the visualizations, you know, like what the fuck is going on?

[00:38:20] Speaker 11: Do you really have to, man, it's not fucking Black Friday. It's, it's, it's a super American thing for starters.

[00:38:26] Speaker: Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ. Do you know every single European on this phone call to date has tried to trash America Like literally every, no. Hello, every single one of you. Did William Let Nick know.

[00:38:38] Does it work? Let Nick know to stop talking. His bullshit about

[00:38:42] Speaker 9: I'm with Nick on this, to be

[00:38:43] Speaker: honest. Yeah, of course. You fucking

[00:38:45] Speaker 9: are fucking Euro trash fucking dickheads. Dude. You, you guys, Nick will understand this, but you guys, Nick will understand this, but Gamy Sue call

[00:38:55] Speaker: you guys are so fun, but you just enjoy trashing America and I gotta, I'll end the,

[00:39:02] Speaker 10: I'll end the debate right now.

[00:39:03] Hell yeah. The only good thing, okay, about the greater Euro zone. Is the curry

[00:39:15] Speaker 8: bro. Bro.

[00:39:18] Speaker: Bars. Dude bars. Okay, let's not get too controversial guys. This is episode number two. Alright? All right. Let's, let's fucking relax. And Nick, keep your shit on topic, dude. Keep your topics to Shopify. I don't wanna hear any syn js.

[00:39:32] I don't hear any bullshit, dude.

[00:39:33] Speaker 11: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Big dog. Okay, there's no need for that. There's no need for that. It makes me feel so

[00:39:39] Speaker: respected when you call me Big dog dude. Genuinely,

[00:39:45] Speaker 3: I, from our initial,

[00:39:46] Speaker 11: our initial meeting point, what's that? I caught five minutes of this conversation before I jumped on, and you were just gobbling down Toby.

[00:39:54] You're like, oh, he's a genius dude. People,

[00:39:57] Speaker 6: okay. Oh my God.

[00:39:59] Speaker: He does, he's, he swallows it. He gobbles it all. Here's the thing, guys. Bad, dude. Here's the thing here. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I'm gonna mute all you guys, because here's the thing. When people start talking about gobbling, I see that shit on TikTok.

[00:40:12] I don't fuck around with that shit. When people want to tell me some gay shit, y'all are about to die. Like Jake, I'm gonna beat the fuck outta you. Next time I see you, I'm gonna slap your sloppy fucking face. Fucking Nick. I'm gonna take a bat to your ass, dude. I know you can box, but I'm gonna take a bat to your ass, dude, and you're fucking golf.

[00:40:30] So don't bring that shit.

[00:40:31] Speaker 11: Toby. Toby, you know, everyone. He's like, oh, he's the greatest. He's like, okay, he created great Shopify. That's cool. But I, I, I, I can't really, you know.

[00:40:39] Speaker: No, you guys are stupid. You guys don't understand. If you think Toby is Machiavellian, you're fucking dumb. That is not who you have to be able to read people.

[00:40:49] Dude, there's all sorts of random sales douche bags that are like that. If you think Toby's like that, you're literally stupid there, because none of us know him personally, so none of us know for sure. But there's no way you could interpret that based on his character, his track record, and you want to be like, oh, you're gay.

[00:41:06] Like, you're fucking dumb. It's not that he's a genuine dude.

[00:41:10] Speaker 11: He's Of course, of course, of course. I'm not saying he's, he's gay. I'm just saying he's. He is just not my flavor. No, not that he's gay, you guys. No. You guys are telling

[00:41:19] Speaker: me I'm doing gay shit. You guys are telling me I'm sucking you. That's what you guys are saying because you guys are fucking gay as fuck.

[00:41:26] Hey, look, look, look, look,

[00:41:27] Speaker 11: look.

[00:41:28] Speaker: Fucking gay

[00:41:29] Speaker 11: as fuck. I jumped on, I jumped on, I jumped on, and all I heard was, oh, Toby's my, he's my man. You know? That's

[00:41:37] Speaker: not what I was saying. Dumb

[00:41:38] Speaker 11: ass.

[00:41:39] Speaker: That's not what I was saying. You guys don't listen. I was saying he has done important shit. He's an open and authentic person.

[00:41:48] Why are you guys so slow, dude? Okay, okay,

[00:41:50] Speaker 11: okay, okay.

[00:41:51] Speaker: Yeah,

[00:41:53] Speaker 11: I understand. You're right. You're right.

[00:41:54] Speaker: Yeah, correct. There you go. Fucking dumbass. All right, let's go on some fucking topics, dude. Why is everything gotta be a fight with you? Fucking Euro trash, dude. Like chill up. Hey, hey, hey, hey. God damn dude. Can we talk some Black Friday?

[00:42:11] Shit. Like somebody throws some stats, dude, like none of y'all got any fucking out

[00:42:16] Speaker 9: Friday, this Black Friday fucking fish. May I,

[00:42:19] Speaker 10: may I share a Black Friday story? Yeah. From today? Hell yeah. Dude. $200 million brand. My client have an SEO problems,

[00:42:27] Speaker: by the way. I need to see a screenshot of that. 'cause I, I don't necessarily believe that off the riff.

[00:42:31] Speaker 10: Can't, can't do it.

[00:42:32] Speaker: Can't do it.

[00:42:35] Speaker 10: So no title tags?

[00:42:40] Speaker 7: No title tags.

[00:42:41] Speaker 10: Straight up like, you know, title, like the title, the main title tag on their whole site. None just doesn't exist. And then I even like, you know, I even like queried for it in the console just to make sure it wasn't being injected. Not a, I've never seen that one.

[00:42:57] Speaker 8: That's, and then that just happened today, dude. That just started today.

[00:43:01] Speaker 10: Oh yeah. No, I, it's been like that for God knows how long. And then I sent a message and

[00:43:06] Speaker 9: I was like, wait, you developer for that website?

[00:43:09] Speaker 10: No,

[00:43:09] Speaker 9: no, no, no.

[00:43:10] Speaker 10: I just, I help him with SEO stuff and then I'm like, I don't know. How do you like SEO?

[00:43:15] I might, I might dabble, you know, little black hat, dude, my little toe, little black hat, little toe in the Epsom salt back, you know? Dude, how are you? The funniest. But anyway, so there's your, there's a Black Friday, uh, story

[00:43:27] Speaker 7: for you. That's interesting. I, I, I've got one. I pushed to production this morning. Oh, there we go.

[00:43:35] There we go. Introduced, uh, an exception which was caught and handled, but it shouldn't have been reported. And so our logging, our tracing logs, 60 million exceptions an hour for. About six hours. And now, uh, I'm gonna get a bill on Monday for that. We're gonna see the, uh, billion log events I pay for a month.

[00:43:59] We use most of those today. 'cause I, I, I had to run that deployment.

[00:44:04] Speaker 10: What? I once got a, got $3,000 given back to me from AWS 'cause I fucked up on, um, nice cloud front Invalidations. Oh man, that was, I thought they were free. I switched from cloud. I was like cloud flare to cloud front, you know, and then I had like a $3,000 bill.

[00:44:23] Nice for just cash and validations, but they were really cool. So maybe, I don't know. You can hit 'em up with like a crying story. I might get some money back. You know,

[00:44:31] Speaker 7: I saw they came out with fixed pricing for CloudFront and so I submitted the form to talk to them about it and they wanted to, their flat rate, they wanted to raise, raise the bill 60% a month for the flat rate.

[00:44:45] And so I'm gonna stick with the dynamic pricing.

[00:44:49] Speaker 10: Aw. Do you guys think CloudFlare sucked? Fuck no, bro. Really? Fuck. No,

[00:44:54] Speaker 7: it's slow. Cdm. Wait, you're taking, if you're not hosting on workers, yeah, it's slow as shit. I have a thread. I'll have to find it and link it with their CTO where I like just said that a few days ago, like we used to run Argo tunnels on Fargate and Hughes CloudFlare over that.

[00:45:12] And even without just going through like the private network, it added like eight to 12 milliseconds of overhead for every connection. And maybe it's just CloudFlare over AWS but the routing there takes like the absolute worst route every time. Even when, when you have Argo, I

[00:45:30] Speaker 10: think it's. The core DNS like the first DNS request through those guys is like super slow.

[00:45:36] Speaker 7: Oh, if you don't pay for Argo. Yeah. Yeah. Your baseline, it is still fairly fast, but it's, it's slow.

[00:45:43] Speaker 10: I mean faster than not cash, but Yeah, but surprising 'cause everyone really loves CloudFlare and they love to tell other people about it.

[00:45:51] Speaker 7: Dude, when, when do we get rapid reviews at the edge? I need those. It's fundamental for my business.

[00:45:59] Speaker 10: Tell, send me, send me a dm. I don't even know what that means.

[00:46:02] Speaker: I don't either, dude. I have no, I I have no idea what Jake's talking about. Half the time, dude. I just know he's right about something that I don't understand. But wait, did are, is layers built on CloudFlare?

[00:46:12] Speaker 7: An earlier version was? No, it's, oh, we're a hundred percent on AWS now.

[00:46:18] Oh, gotcha. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Uh, our analytics and event stuff run through Barkers, but. Oh, we don't run anything else through workers anymore.

[00:46:26] Speaker: It wasn't 'cause you, I remember hearing about the D one database from you actually. So did work. Oh man. Did it not end up working out? Oh man,

[00:46:33] Speaker 7: I was so bullish on D one.

[00:46:36] That was half the reason I got into it. Oh. D one is, is great. I really like it, but I can't see using it at scale. The, the only people I know of that actually use it at scale and have a few terabytes of data sharded in D one is blot out. The tagging provider, the, the storage just isn't scalable. You can't go past the 10 gig limit.

[00:46:59] They won't raise it. And it's 10 gig.

[00:47:01] Speaker: 10 gig total database list.

[00:47:03] Speaker 7: Yeah. You have to create a separate database after that. Oh. And so like, that's like blot out. Let me ask you, what

[00:47:11] Speaker 11: database are you using? Like you're not using, are you Postgres?

[00:47:13] Speaker 7: Oh

[00:47:14] Speaker: yeah,

[00:47:14] Speaker 7: we use Postgres.

[00:47:15] Speaker: Well, that was CloudFlare D one that you were talking about, right?

[00:47:17] Yeah.

[00:47:18] Speaker 7: Yeah.

[00:47:18] Speaker: D one is is like, it's like a SQL Light or something. It's like a Scaled Edge SQL light or some crazy shit.

[00:47:24] Speaker 11: And I mean, because, because I mean, I was thought, like you, you've, you've tried pipe sense before. Yeah. 'cause I mean, we're running on Mineo pipe sense, and we're, we're gonna try and do the seaweed like, um, very, very soon.

[00:47:35] And we've had like no issues. No issues, right. Forever. Nothing through CloudFlare. But I mean, I want, I was curious because you, yeah. I mean, you must have looked into type sense.

[00:47:45] Speaker 2: I mean, they must have considered type sense, right? All your clients, Jake, did you guys look at at that? So

[00:47:50] Speaker 7: we, we started product development right around when type sense came out and RV 1.5 was built on type sense.

[00:47:58] It also wasn't. I don't wanna say it's not scalable, but it's more of a algolia type sense. Milli search, solar, elastic search, all built for semi-structured documentation search, which I, I just don't believe that works very well in e-commerce anymore with long tail searches and stuff

[00:48:20] Speaker 10: is type sense. The in-memory search

[00:48:23] Speaker 11: fairly, I think a hosted platform.

[00:48:25] Yeah. When you have the search instances, you have engine instances with, uh, type sense. Yeah, yeah,

[00:48:31] Speaker: yeah. Dude, I'm telling you, bro, Jake has looked into all the fucking options, dude. I'll be shocked if anybody, all of of them,

[00:48:37] Speaker 7: we dumped so much money in the type sense and in the Millie search, like the reason we didn't go with either of them is because we couldn't reasonably shard or replicate data across regions like our V one was on Millie search and that deployment was ridiculous.

[00:48:55] I spent a lot of time with that team talking about like sharding and replication, and we tried like copying the file system and stuff and ultimately landed with this really shitty system of request comes in, we distribute it to a dozen or more search nodes and we hope that the search node accepts the request and so there is no guarantee of consistency across nodes.

[00:49:22] That was a constant issue of like every other page reload, you may hit a node that's in the same region but has a slightly different data set. And you would see different stuff on the pages. It was a total, total shit show.

[00:49:38] Speaker: Absolute shit show. And by the way, like people always like accuse me of like, oh, I just like someone 'cause it's fucking for some stupid reason or whatever.

[00:49:46] I have an ability to recognize talent. That's why I had like a weird recruiting business for a while. But anyways, the reason I'm saying this shit about Jake is 'cause I can just tell, like I don't know if other people can just tell, but I can just tell from the fucking data I've collected over whatever year or two of talking in the level of complexity of the shit.

[00:50:03] He talks about the scale of his brands, the fact that he's got like the biggest or one of the biggest brands. I'm just saying like, hold on. Who, who do you call that? Are you talking about Rainbow? I thought you told me. They're one of the biggest ones. They were one of the first ones to.

[00:50:16] Speaker 7: They used to be.

[00:50:17] They used to be. Oh,

[00:50:18] Speaker: but weren't they one of first ones to be on the enterprise? On the enterprise licensing tier, or to be considering it when it first came out? From Salesforce?

[00:50:25] Speaker 7: Yeah.

[00:50:25] Speaker: Yeah. No, no, no. The Shopify one. I remember the Shopify one. They, when Shopify came out with their enterprise. Yeah,

[00:50:30] Speaker 7: yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:50:30] Commerce. Commerce components. Yeah. They're retail though. They're e-comm footprints. Not that

[00:50:35] Speaker: that big. Oh, gotcha. Okay. Well, okay. Still, but you still have decent brands. But I, I don't know. I still had the sense. Yeah,

[00:50:41] Speaker 7: I think maybe our biggest brand, maybe I'm wrong by the way,

[00:50:43] Speaker: maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're not the guy arm, but I think

[00:50:46] Speaker 7: you are.

[00:50:46] Which one? Uh, I think maybe our biggest right now is Arm, they're like a health and wellness. Oh, okay. Uh, they sell some kinda like collagen supplement. Yeah, but

[00:50:56] Speaker: I'm just saying like, I, you know, what you think would be fun if anybody wanted to like debate you or whatever, like, that'd be hilarious. I'd want to see, 'cause anytime anyone comes at you with a question like, oh, what about type sense?

[00:51:07] You literally break it down so systematically in the, like, most polite way possible. And I literally, I, I need to know if like anyone else knows more about patient. It's just like,

[00:51:17] Speaker 7: it's just interesting to me. That's like five years and millions of dollars dumped into building a product that is non profitable.

[00:51:27] Speaker 8: Well,

[00:51:27] Speaker 7: you better make it profitable at some point.

[00:51:32] Speaker 2: Oh yeah. That's what I've got Lucas for. How's he doing? Is he crushing leads and stuff?

[00:51:40] Speaker 7: Oh man, that guy is a, that guy, he is like a sales. Demon. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't, I couldn't do it. I don't know how anybody, like who, who sales is really their thing.

[00:51:52] Does it? I know it's, I hate all of the rejection and the emails and the messages, but Yeah. I mean, this guy will send like hundreds of emails. Yeah. He will. Like, he, he wanted to like record a five minute loom for every like cold email or something. And I was thinking like, how, how do you have time to do that?

[00:52:12] How, how can you like spend even a few minutes looking at an unqualified prospect and be like, yeah, I'm gonna record something totally custom for them and send it. I couldn't.

[00:52:24] Speaker: And like that's something that can be AIed right now. Like, there's so many things that can be right now, like the shit that can be done in terms of lead generation right now is bonkers

[00:52:34] Speaker 2: in my opinion.

[00:52:35] Speaker 7: What I'm hearing is, uh, you, you, you might want his equity instead of him.

[00:52:40] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that would hurt it.

[00:52:43] Speaker: That would not hurt because like, I don't know, there's just a lot of stuff possible now that didn't used to be, I mean. Like a lot, like a lot, you know, it's like new use cases are getting unlocked like every month.

[00:52:56] Yeah. Like I saw a demo of a dude that Alex, I forget his name of a call, of like an outbound voice call to a customer to like upsell them after a cancellation or whatever. And like it played the audio and I'm just sitting there waiting for the customer to realize that this is automatic and he doesn't for a minute and a half.

[00:53:14] And it's like, oh yeah, how's it going? Oh. And then it just answers and it's like, oh, and by the way, we wanted to offer you a 50% coupon if you decide to rejoin within three months. And the guy's like, okay. It was such a weird moment seeing that, like the fact that you can do that now and it actually works in the wild at ridiculously low costs is insane.

[00:53:36] So crazy. Yeah, that is true. Yeah. No, he seems like he's good at, he, uh, good at sales and stuff. I remember seeing his, his video about his, um. Website Performance optimization agency, which is a funny niche, dude. When is somebody gonna do a website performance agency that actually like

[00:53:51] Speaker 9: scales? What do you mean don't get a web, a website performance agency.

[00:53:55] Just get a, get an agency that builds it right in the first place. That's there he is, dude,

[00:54:01] Speaker 10: fucking

[00:54:01] Speaker 9: Luke.

[00:54:02] Speaker 10: But I think none of the clients actually really care.

[00:54:05] Speaker 9: No, they just don't fucking understand. Right. That'll be real. Yeah,

[00:54:08] Speaker 10: they don't. I don't, everybody says they want, but nobody wants to take the time

[00:54:13] Speaker 9: to do it.

[00:54:14] Right. But people just think if you just get a good score on lights, speed, then you've got a fucking insanely good website. Now that's fucking bullets.

[00:54:23] Speaker 7: Fucking no. I stopped like trying to touch a lot of that stuff because earlier this year I did what I decided was like our last liquid performance thing at.

[00:54:35] Proton and this brand was insistent on us documenting and providing like an implementation plan for their team on every single possible issue they had. And so we did it and it took like two and a half months, their team fixed everything and about another month. And then a month later they came to me acting like, or they expected like some ridiculous ROI on the stuff, like their time to first bite and page speed was the reason that like Meadow is so expensive and all of their ads are flopping and stuff.

[00:55:10] And so they came back trying to like negotiate, trying to get some of their money back. And I was like, I was straight up that this, you know, if you wanna fix this stuff, we'll help you, but. Use like common sense. If it feels really bad, then yeah, I'm sure improving it will maybe help some, but if it doesn't feel bad to you, it doesn't feel bad to the customers.

[00:55:29] Or if, if you're selling something that somebody wants to buy, it doesn't matter how bad of an experience it is.

[00:55:34] Speaker 9: I had a recent one where like I was finishing up like a bespoke build and they held me to ransom for the last invoice because it wasn't passed on call web vitals yet. The site was like insanely fast.

[00:55:44] Like anyone could see it just visually, but because it was not passing on web vitals, they were just like, nah, it's not good enough. Like we're not gonna pay you until it, until it was

[00:55:53] Speaker: like, like I personally feel like I agree if something like feels snappy, it's like, dude, it's fine. But I'm like, I think all this, it's all a scam.

[00:56:01] Like all this web optimization is a scam. It's like if that shit didn't exist and all the fucking initiatives and like entire working groups and like entire job titles around that stuff at Google and stuff like that, shit would be so much slower right now. And then it would just add friction. Like imagine if everything was just four times slower all the time, like it would add friction and at the same time, I kind of don't, it does

[00:56:24] Speaker 10: affect ad cost, right?

[00:56:26] Oh, okay. And stuff like that. And I've seen massive change in, in, um, like SEO rank for certain people. Oh, nice. Like massive, like Yeah. Scary change. Oh yeah. And then, so it's not for everybody. So for some people it doesn't matter. But then for other people it's like, can move the needle for real. Some people zero.

[00:56:44] I I

[00:56:44] Speaker 7: agree there. Yeah. I think it's, it's subjective and I don't know what that, that subject is necessarily, but yeah, I, for some people it does wonders. Others it does nothing.

[00:56:55] Speaker 10: The only way to know is to do it right, but like flat line doesn't matter.

[00:57:00] Speaker 9: That's, but then there's never any guarantee from doing it at the same time as well.

[00:57:03] So like, it's still always a chance, I guess.

[00:57:06] Speaker 10: For sure. Yeah. I mean, like I tell people straight up, you know, we don't know what'll happen, but we have to try and then mm-hmm. You know, I would say 20 10% of people are like, oh, that sounds like good logic. Other people are like, fuck no, they don't want to pay for Nada

[00:57:23] Speaker 2: ain't paying for sh

[00:57:25] Speaker: shit.

[00:57:26] I get those referrals every once in a while. Like, we need help speeding up our site. And like, I tried making one once and it just did not go well. And I'm just like, is this actually a, a thing? Like, is this an actual capability to like, aside

[00:57:39] Speaker 9: up, I dismiss those stuff, I dismiss those jobs. Like I as quick as I fucking can, I ain't going near them.

[00:57:45] Like, fuck that.

[00:57:46] Speaker: What, what type of shit have you been working on, by the way? What type of projects have you been working on?

[00:57:51] Speaker 9: I don't like to do kind of like little quick things. I like to do kind of like mini projects, almost like I had, I've got one that I have to do this weekend where there's a dude that wants to basically show like events on his Shopify store.

[00:58:01] So it's gonna be like meta objects. He wants two pages. One that's gonna show like upcoming events, right? And the other page is gonna be past events. So straight up like storefront API just grab all the, uh, matter objects and then just filter by the date, basically. Right? Um, pretty straightforward, but those kind of little, you know, like nice little projects.

[00:58:18] It's not too small, but it's also not too big, right? The guy did like really want to, he did try to pull me down on price. Like I, um, through store Tasker about two weeks ago, I had a, a dude come to me that wanted a bespoke website, a Shopify theme, and he explicitly said like, I don't wanna on off the shelf theme or anything.

[00:58:36] I want a completely custom bespoke theme. And naturally I said like right at the beginning, like, what's your budget looking like? And he was like, oh, I'm open to it, but so what would it look like? And I was like, naturally, like between 20 to $35,000 and that's before fees. And the guy comes back and says, oh, I've only got a $5,000 budget.

[00:58:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:58:55] Speaker 6: And

[00:58:55] Speaker 9: I'm like, dude,

[00:59:06] honestly they have no ideas. I'm like,

[00:59:08] Speaker 8: for five grand for Dick to fucking, but

[00:59:11] Speaker 9: these, these people as well, they don't realize like, you are not just getting a developer here. You are getting someone that's. Project management, comms account, man, everything. And they still want a fucking bespoke website for $5,000, dude.

[00:59:23] And that is before, if this is through store task in which it was then 24% of fees are gonna, are gonna go straight to them. So you've lost all of that already. Like it's an insane world out there. Dude,

[00:59:34] Speaker: let me ask a question, dude. So, while Nick is here, since he's graced us with his presence and fucking, I am sure there's someone on this call that understands JavaScript enough to debate this sin js bullshit that, oh, I'm not getting involved, I want No, no, no.

[00:59:51] I want see, and I'll be honest. I'll be honest. I can't do it. I don't, I don't even know enough to know, bro, for sure. But I need you to debate that shit with somebody on this call right now. Dude, whatever the fuck you think is so good, I cannot do

[01:00:03] Speaker 11: it. Listen, listen, listen. There I fucking hate react. Let's just start with that.

[01:00:08] Yeah. React.

[01:00:09] Speaker: That's acceptable. I think it gets the job done. It's the

[01:00:12] Speaker 11: right tool for the job. No, no, no, no. And I'm It made you disposable. It made you disposable. No. It single handedly made developers. Nope. Replaceable and disposable. Nope.

[01:00:22] Speaker: Yes. I only write React. I wouldn't know React if it wasn't So it made Pollen disposable.

[01:00:27] No, it made, it gave me work. It did the exact opposite. And I'm

[01:00:31] Speaker 11: Kelly. Yeah. Matt, you just, you are prompting Correct. And do whatever it spits out. Correct. Let's be honest that I, that's exactly what I'm doing. It's spit out React. That's

[01:00:38] Speaker: exactly what I'm doing. Bros. React.

[01:00:40] Speaker 11: I, I'm literally been telling people, but when it comes, when it comes to the virtual bomb, when it comes, like the way React is designed, it was fucking amazing when it first was released.

[01:00:48] Okay. But I had problems with it soon after, and then I was interview, and then I end up going to Miral. And the way Miral is designed, the actual, the way it diffs, the way it creates the virtual bomb, it's beautiful. The algorithm is fucking, it's, it's spectacular now. Sin. It does that, but 10 times better.

[01:01:08] Like it, it's not even on the same, on the same fucking scope as React like it. But does, it solves, like with thin you don't need tip, you don't need tail means you don't need, it's all CSS drop gets only in one. Okay.

[01:01:20] Speaker: But like does anyone, does, does anyone on this call who understands this shit as deep as him?

[01:01:25] Like does everybody agree with him or is there any argument on the other side

[01:01:29] Speaker 9: because. I don't understand it and I think it looks like stuff and I'm fucking so sorry.

[01:01:34] Speaker: All well then fine. Okay, Dick, there's no real fucking

[01:01:36] Speaker 7: as far as rendering. Yeah, I get it. I agree. However, I love me some JSX. I love it.

[01:01:45] Speaker 11: Jake, don't say that man. You are better than that one. I, I need to send you some of my shit. You're too much of a pure snake. I

[01:01:53] Speaker 7: finally fixed an issue a few days ago that was causing 10,000 re-render a second on almost a thousand. That sounds like a skill issue if you ask me. Oh, it was, it was a skill issue.

[01:02:09] But you know, the beauty react rendered in any way. People have been using it for like four years and I've known it was doing that. For at least four years. But nobody complained. Nobody complained. You don't need 60 FPS in your merchandising editor.

[01:02:26] Speaker: Yeah, dude. There's trade offs to be made. Like I understand on some purity level it's better on different specifics.

[01:02:31] I get that, but that's not the same as React is not the right for the job, for the job that it has. Like, which is what matters, I think. And there's no way you're smarter than Toby on this. I think what it

[01:02:41] Speaker 11: comes down to,

[01:02:41] Speaker: like there's no way, like you're not like everybody knows he's smarter than us. He just is what?

[01:02:47] What's to gonna do with this? He's ultimately responsible for curious there about the React. He's

[01:02:52] Speaker 8: ul,

[01:02:54] Speaker: he's ultimately responsible for all the technical architecture he meets with every fucking product team. Like he makes all the decisions, dude, like they trickle down over time, but he's like a fucking dictator, Nick,

[01:03:05] Speaker 7: you don't get it.

[01:03:06] Toby made liquid. Right? And liquid made people realize they need to react. Okay. Okay. So that, that's how we ended up here.

[01:03:14] Speaker: So you guys think that syn js is supposed to be what is shipped in Shopify and Toby's too slow to know that shit.

[01:03:22] Speaker 7: Okay. Now what do you mean by shipped In Shopify, there's no world, like, like the client song React is baked in.

[01:03:30] Speaker: React is baked into our ecosystem. Tell, tell, tell, tell, tell and, and app surfaces. And you guys want to talk shit about it. Like you don't have an alternative. You just have some theoretical bullshit. Now they

[01:03:41] Speaker 7: did, they did just move. They deprecated. Polaris react. It's all web components now. Right? Right.

[01:03:50] Speaker: But it's probably not C js, which, so Nick's gonna say it's fucking inferior. Yeah. But,

[01:03:53] Speaker 11: but, but, but syn js not released yet, man. It's still, it's still like, it's still behind. Like it's still private. We use it in production. Yeah. And it's fucking, it's, I love it's, but it's not released yet once it goes Oh, so you think it's gonna pop when it goes public?

[01:04:06] It depends full. Like a very, like a subset of develop, subset of develop developers. No, I get that. If, if you adopt it, it's different. But the whole reason Shopify adopt React in the first place, mom, was because they wanted to expand the market reach. Of course. Like of course. And then they adopted it and then they attracted more eyeballs and made it easy for the, of course, that's, there's value there.

[01:04:26] My fundamental, there's value there. My fundamental of course, but my, my disagree with that and what, what triggers me about that is that for a number of years, Shopify was innovating like it was. It created liquid, it created its own ecosystem. Right. Oh, I see. And then it just, and then what they fucking did right, is they just said, we're going to be like everyone else, do no innovation, keep things simple, and we're just gonna slow drip release things that have been in other eCommerce platforms for fucking years, man.

[01:04:53] And that's what my core problem with it is. It's like they, they have a scale. I get you there.

[01:04:59] Speaker 7: I get you there. Innovative enough, like they have a scale issue. I was a huge fan of hydrogen V one. I still run hydrogen V one on a few sites. And I don't hate remix, but I do dislike it. And like hydrogen V one.

[01:05:15] While they made a lot of mistakes, they were innovating, they helped create what is now React server components and streaming, which is its own shit show. But then they dumped it for remix, which is now what? Like React Router V 7 29 and we're getting like, iframe Islands is the new remix or something.

[01:05:37] What wild. So it's like, what's wild's? Wild? It's wild. I

[01:05:42] Speaker: mean it's weird. I get it. But like, they have to make decisions like that'll appeal to the math. Like also I think that they It's the

[01:05:49] Speaker 7: 90. Yeah, the 90%, yeah.

[01:05:50] Speaker: But also they, they have a stale issue. So like for them to roll out functionality, there's a reason everyone's ru moving the Shopify from every other platform.

[01:05:59] It's because the quality is there and the places where it matters. But it's harder and harder to add functionality at scale. But functions is innovative. You don't, bro, you don't think functions is innovative. Is there another, like, I don't even know if there's another e-commerce platform within equivalent.

[01:06:14] Speaker 7: I'm gonna be a little bit real with functions. Functions is very cool. Functions they came up with from CloudFlare Workers that is a, just like Oxygen is a re-scanned version of workers for platforms. Oh, okay. Functions are also a re-scanned version of workers for platforms that they run on their own engine.

[01:06:36] So I don't think they came up with that architecture, but they did implement it very well. Oh, I see. I'll say that. Okay. It's very clean. I didn't know that. Very clean.

[01:06:43] Speaker: Yeah. I mean that's innovative. You can't say that's not innovative. Fucking everybody was hyped about the web components. I guess that's, I don't know.

[01:06:49] I don't even know if that's a big deal or not, but there's shit they're innovative with. I mean, everything's behind though, too. B two B's way, fucking behind everything else. Like a lot of shit's way behind. Like Commerce Tools has fucking API guarantees and shit like that. But they also appeal to the masses.

[01:07:03] Commerce, you know, they appeal to masses. Commerce tools is enterprise and Shopify is going to, is going up market and just fucking ripping business outta it. Well, I mean, I don't see the numbers, but that's what I hear.

[01:07:15] Speaker 11: But they're not. But they're not. But that's because I know, I know. Like I've heard you say that before, that everybody's moving to fucking Oh, they're not.

[01:07:22] They're losing out.

[01:07:23] Speaker 7: Wait,

[01:07:23] Speaker: they are

[01:07:24] Speaker 7: losing. Yeah, they're losing enterprise. They're losing hundred percent.

[01:07:27] Speaker: They are. They are.

[01:07:29] Speaker 7: Yes. Oh, I know that.

[01:07:31] Speaker: Everybody's always telling me Enterprise is rushing in. No,

[01:07:34] Speaker 7: what? I was on a call two weeks ago with a company in the US that is worth $12 billion, and the reason they weren't convinced on moving to Shopify was because of the search.

[01:07:46] Dude. Like Shopify introduced layers to the conversation and now they are maybe considering Shopify, dude. I'm telling you. But, but they still have about a hundred other items on their list. The platform can't meet or that like the scale doesn't work for,

[01:08:00] Speaker 9: there's so many like gaps as well, stuff. There's so many gaps, like little things.

[01:08:04] I think, Nick, you've said this before, like things like Shopify, which, sorry, no wishlist. It's little things like that, like Centrif for example, offers that already within their platform, but by the box. Yeah. Yeah. Why a Shopify cares about wishlist that takes five minutes. No, but it's just an example though.

[01:08:19] Like these little things like that, that is such a small implementation, they can't count out realistically that they could, they could put it in those, but

[01:08:26] Speaker: I'm not saying that that's not a good idea on an individual level, but. I don't, I know. Well, you've gotta look at it from, I know a major SaaS vendor that ha their entire customer base is Salesforce commerce.

[01:08:37] Their entire customer base is moving to Shopify over either next 18 months or the next 36.

[01:08:43] Speaker 9: Yeah. But like, but like Jake said though, what mean

[01:08:44] Speaker: enterprise, I don't even know what Jake just

[01:08:47] Speaker 9: explained it though. Like, search for itself is, is a let down. Like that is, if you're an inside five brand, you don't wanna be going to another fucking third party platform to bring that in.

[01:08:56] That should be part of it. Course,

[01:08:58] Speaker 7: of course. What it, what happens is, and this is, I don't know how much I can speak about it, but this is what happened with Rainbow. They were enticed by the millions of dollars in savings a year on platform fees, and they just traded it for millions of dollars a year on SaaS.

[01:09:16] Now they still save 20, 25%, but the promise of eight to $12 million a year saved was a lie because they spend 70% of that on vendors functionality. Shopify doesn't support

[01:09:30] Speaker: who actually moves off. Nobody tell. It's too expensive. They can't go back. There you go. Nobody will move. No one will take them back.

[01:09:35] So what you guys mean they're losing enterprise? Nobody's moving off. They're definitely getting enterprise market share. I'm sure they're losing deals, but I've hear from everybody that they're getting lots of new enterprise brands, depending exactly what revenue ban you're talking about. But like Full Smith Band?

[01:09:48] Full Smith. Full Smith, okay. Oh, okay. All right.

[01:09:51] Speaker 11: Actually, that's fair. Multiple, multiple in in the European region, right. Like they're just not even in the UK right there. You might know Luke a little bit, like they're not winning out enterprise for every like 10,000 brick and mortar mom pop stores. That's like a monthly earning from enterprise, right?

[01:10:08] The amount of money, like the amount of money Enterprise earns. Yeah, that's the keeps lights on. Like they're, they're hiring right now. They've got like a couple of people joining their team. Right. And they've hired some actually really good developers who I know. Okay. Okay. Are they, are they still

[01:10:21] Speaker 9: using favor as well?

[01:10:23] Probably. But because I, I remember it was about, not last Christmas to Christmas four. They were cl put on a Christmas event and Paul Smith were there. It was like the e-com manager and one of the, one of the lead people there. 'cause they, I think they, that was just when they launched the new site as well.

[01:10:36] So I'd actually met a few of those guys from there.

[01:10:39] Speaker 11: Yeah. Correct. I mean like, and they, and they, and they're my chapter on Central, but when it comes to like, what they're doing, Shopify is even the people that are hiring now, like the good, the good software engineers that I know I speak to regularly.

[01:10:49] They're going straight to work on enterprise like that. Of course, their focus,

[01:10:53] Speaker 7: because they're fo they're aggressively going after it. They're gonna crack the code. I mean, you guys don't get it. They're

[01:11:00] Speaker: gonna kill enterprise if,

[01:11:02] Speaker 7: if you think about it, they have already acquired the rest of the market. It's only a matter of time before the rest of the stores on, uh, square either shut down or move over.

[01:11:14] Speaker 11: Mm-hmm.

[01:11:14] Speaker 7: Exactly.

[01:11:15] Speaker 11: Monopoly for sure. But I think, I think like a competition's also very healthy. Like one thing with Shopify, I feel like they're, they're not going to be able to do is a lot of the things that Centra was built at the core of doing. I mean that getting into technical on it, like it's just, it, it's the way it scales.

[01:11:32] So it's like that you can do everything in Shopify, but it's still lacking in some dude.

[01:11:36] Speaker: Don't, don't gimme that. Without getting too technical, what's the technical detail of how it's, I

[01:11:40] Speaker 7: mean, like, I mean, I mean, I'll, I'll give you a great example. Store pickup. I went to implement this about a year and a half ago for a brand when they were forced on to check out one, and the so-called X like NASA engineer who wrote the store pickup functionality was synchronously looping every location on the store, checking inventory for every item in the cart.

[01:12:05] It didn't scale past a hundred locations. Oh shit. We went to them. We, you know, they said they were gonna fix it. We came back, it didn't scale past 250 locations. They had to totally rewrite that functionality before it supported over a thousand locations. Um, and so it's

[01:12:29] Speaker 11: things like that. Yeah.

[01:12:31] Speaker 7: That when it hits higher scale.

[01:12:34] I think in that case, because it was so new, it was very easy or much easier for them to go back and fix. But think like the variant limit, for example. Oh yeah. You know, combined listings was supposed to be the solution. Combined listings is a shit show. Combined listings

[01:12:49] Speaker 8: tracks,

[01:12:50] Speaker 7: they just came out with, you know, 2000 plus variants or something on products, which to my understanding, that took like a fundamental rewrite of a lot of stuff.

[01:13:00] Speaker: Right. No. Like, yeah. You know, I

[01:13:01] Speaker 7: don't, I don't think anybody's necessarily to blame for that. It's not like, oh, you know, Toby, you know, this guy's a an idiot or something and he should have done better. It's no, you know, when designing that, no one anticipated loading. Yeah. 10 million skew into Shopify.

[01:13:17] Speaker 6: Yeah.

[01:13:17] But like everybody, I think they could have been

[01:13:19] Speaker 7: a bit more conscious of that stuff of, you know, five or six years ago,

[01:13:23] Speaker: of course. But also they achieved this level of simplicity necessary to hit scale and like, that's not really an architectural difference. That's like some guy wrote some messed up code that shipped that shouldn't have shipped.

[01:13:34] Or maybe the architecture's better. But how is C'S architecture, how is RA's architecture fundamentally better than Shopify's in what

[01:13:42] Speaker 11: you can create? You can create Shopify and central ones. You

[01:13:45] Speaker: can

[01:13:45] Speaker 11: create multiple. That's, bro, that's impossible because

[01:13:49] Speaker: Shopify is the org. Shopify is the support protocols.

[01:13:53] Shopify is the level of happiness of the fucking support engineer that has to go in and work and focus on a dumb problem. You can't reproduce that because you have a similar fucking whatever container. Yeah.

[01:14:06] Speaker 11: But, but as enterprise man. They're using high level agencies to build things up. Like there's not just that, they're just to hire one developer.

[01:14:14] They get off the, off the site to work on. Yeah, of course they're hiring agencies that take care of it, that that, you know, take in 30, 40,000 a month just for maintenance costs. They get. Accenture Century in its way is just far more superior platform from my experience working Well mean, but you haven't said any details.

[01:14:31] I

[01:14:32] Speaker: mean, as far as what's the, and I don't know that much about Shopify. I've a

[01:14:35] Speaker 11: lot man,

[01:14:36] Speaker: lot. Well, but you're not saying shit. I mean, I don't know much about Shopify's architecture, but I mean, you could look at the metrics around scale. I'm pretty sure they got that shit fucking nailed. So, I mean, I don't know

[01:14:46] Speaker 11: you, you're a fanboy.

[01:14:47] Kalen. You're a fanboy,

[01:14:48] Speaker: bro. See the, like you got, like, you got like, you're missing the point. Like I literally just asked you for one example of better architecture. Well, all I have to

[01:14:56] Speaker 7: say, I remember Caly loved magenta.

[01:14:59] Speaker: Dude, I'm a true believer dude. I get into shit and I become a true, I'm just

[01:15:04] Speaker 7: messing with you.

[01:15:04] I

[01:15:05] Speaker: become, nah, I become a true believer. I do, and I could be wrong, but you haven't given me a single reason. Their architecture is better. Like if somebody asks, how is cloud player workers architecture better than Google Cloud? You could list something specific about it. It's at the edge, so it has no, doesn't have the cold starts and shit like that.

[01:15:22] Like you didn't even say shit like that. And I don't know that much about that type of architecture, but like, I get it. Everybody has their fucking pet fucking system that they think is better and you're like, oh, you're a fan boy, but you're missing the point like they're going to win the market. It's not that I'm a fan, they're going to win it.

[01:15:41] If you're, you don't see that you're mi like you're missing something or I'm missing something, but like, you guys don't think Shopify's gonna win the market, who else is gonna win it? You think Centras gonna. Own enterprise and Shopify's not gonna get it despite the fact they're obviously pushing for it.

[01:15:58] I mean, no, you guys not, I think

[01:16:00] Speaker 7: Centra will probably own EU enterprise for sure. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Now, maybe, you know, 10 years from now maybe that changes, but

[01:16:09] Speaker: Exactly.

[01:16:11] Speaker 7: It's inevitable. I do think Shopify will catch, I mean,

[01:16:13] Speaker 11: Shopify, Shopify will inevitably, I mean, they are, they're the big dogs, right?

[01:16:17] They're, they're played the game. Right. My fundamental distaste for Shopify is basically how it's all designed. Like, I mean, to give you a, an example, right? Say you're a merchant, right? And you have a hundred brick and mortar stores, right? You have those stores in 10 different countries and you have 50 different warehouses, right.

[01:16:34] Varying locations across all countries. Right? And let's say the merchant is operating both B2C and B2B in 10 different markets, and they're all localized currency, language tax, et cetera. Right? Right, right. With, okay, let's say with each different wholesale and buyer set up with different purchasing conditions.

[01:16:51] Right. For example, this, this buyer, this purchase, this rate, this rate, et cetera, et cetera. Right? That is just fundamentally in the core of No, I understand that. I understand that. Yeah. Right. No, I understand that. I cannot do that. It's so I need No, I agree. Multiple third parties and that type of thing.

[01:17:04] Right. So, no, I've done B2B

[01:17:06] Speaker: priceless. It's trash. Like it's, yeah, I get that. Like there's things they could, I feel

[01:17:10] Speaker 11: like, I mean, C has also been backed by h and m man, so it's like you, you got, you're talking about these big, big players.

[01:17:18] Speaker: No, I'm sure they have some good shit. You know, I'm, and there's shit we should learn from them is what, you know what I mean?

[01:17:24] I'm sure that's the case. I'm just saying they're not gonna win when people say they're gonna win. I'm like, they're not. We need to learn. They need to pick, pick, learn from the right architecture for B2B. 'cause the B2B is trash right now. It's getting better, but like certain things are annoying and they'll probably fix the important things over time, but.

[01:17:40] Like, yeah, that should all be better. All that stuff should be easier. Markets have gotten better though. I mean, do you guys think markets has gotten better with the latest? Yes and no.

[01:17:48] Speaker 9: Fucking hell. The sh lately, like having to figure out how it all works. Especially when you know like all the sub regions and that.

[01:17:53] Now that was a bit of a mind blow. Like Yeah, it's like a different ui.

[01:17:57] Speaker: It's like a different

[01:17:58] Speaker 9: ui.

[01:17:59] Speaker 11: But Kel and Keller sent, right, their series B, right? They took in 11.2 million with one investor. Right? Okay. Shopify in their series B took in 15,000,003 investors. Okay. Okay. Right. So Century's already doing enterprise, right?

[01:18:13] They're already there. Okay. Shopify did that without doing enterprise. So like even those numbers, right? If Shopify started doing enterprise, but only after the IPO, right? So. If you look at this, no, no, no. There's a lot of money behind this platform. Right? And I'm not saying it's gonna out do Shopify. I'm not saying all I'm saying that's gonna, it's gonna carve out a big, considerable niche.

[01:18:34] Speaker: I don't disagree there. I mean, I could believe that for sure. And but if you're only focusing on the enterprise, it's easier, it's easier to do enterprise better. It's like you have a significant advantage at the, the velocity you can run. But like, if it's true that the lower mid-tier part of the market is gonna continually put upward pressure towards the top of the market, then they'll inevitably do it.

[01:18:57] Even if Sentra has a significant competitive advantage now and they're moving faster with functionality.

[01:19:03] Speaker 11: Yeah, to an extent. I mean, there, there's also like, I mean, I sort of go by the, the, the, the theory that big brands are sort of killing out the small, medium sized business now. Like if you look at like, um, not many people like are going to go to the specific brand website to purchase the product.

[01:19:18] They're gonna go to. The, the, the, the, the large ones salon though, they're gonna go to those big merchants mm-hmm. To purchase because it is easier. Right, right. And after COVID man, like small businesses being ki being pushed outta the market. So the money's really not in small business, in my opinion. Oh yeah.

[01:19:35] And I feel like, I feel like we're seeing that across the board. So if these big companies are, if Shopify is going so, is so bullish on enterprise, it just speaks volume of how much they have to change their platform. 'cause the whole platform is like, you can start a store, anyone can start a store and that's great.

[01:19:49] And I, I think that's fantastic and it makes things easy. But let's say 10 years from now, uh, I don't know, man. I'm on sort of, I'm, I'm on the side of saying Shopify had some serious growing pains ahead of them. Right. No, no, I agree. I totally agree. I

[01:20:04] Speaker: like, I can't even imagine how they're gonna do it, like, you know, because there is so much that they're missing.

[01:20:10] I just like, and I don't know about the details, but it's like. There's so much stuff from Commerce tools, they're probably missing. I mean, and probably from Century two. And, and so like, I don't know how they're gonna get there, but either they're gonna continue to be the, basically the highest performance software company, software platform company in the world, which is what they have been.

[01:20:29] I mean, I was on the other side of it for a while. I was in Magento and I just saw Shopify coming up. It was like, first you ignore them, then you laugh at them, then you join them type shit. So Oh yeah. I'm like, no. And my, I was in the same boat.

[01:20:40] Speaker 7: And you laughed at Magento or for Shopify for years. That was a, yeah,

[01:20:45] Speaker: huge.

[01:20:46] And my, my buddy's like watching Salesforce commerce customers going droves to Shopify. And he is just like, and he just sees it. And it's not even like he's happy about it. He just, it's a, he's like, it's Shopify's a runaway freight train. That's what he always says. And it just is, it just fucking is. I think

[01:21:01] Speaker 7: what I'll have to figure out is, is how they manage attention to all of these markets.

[01:21:07] Because it, I think from my perspective, the last couple of years, enterprise has felt neglected. Um, like even commerce components is not what they claimed it would be. It's it is like vaporware, huh? It it is, it's like vaporware. Um, yeah. Which it, it did enable them to do, you know, like shop pay on, on Shopify sites and stuff, which is super neat.

[01:21:28] Oh, well that's huge. And then, you know, it'll be interesting to see as they're focusing more on enterprise now, you know, this result in a lower part of the market, feeling like they're not getting the attention. Or does this mean that, you know, the backlog of issues or, or feature additions for the lower end of the market get postponed?

[01:21:48] Because that's the way the enterprise has felt the last couple of years is that their items are getting backlogged to build for the 90%. And so if that flips now, then you know, that's not good. Which, you know, honestly, any, any company at scale has to deal with that. But I'm curious to see where they come out with that.

[01:22:07] Because I think that that could be the make or break with, with them winning enterprise or with a newer player entering the space for a portion of the market. But I will say, I don't think we will see, at least in like in the next 20 years, another platform like Shopify come in and acquire that much market share.

[01:22:29] Speaker: The only company I thought could do it would be OpenAI. Like I was like, they could own e-commerce if everybody just buys stuff on chat. But it, it seems like they're who they're partnering buy on chat. No, not now, but, but dude, in a year, dude, in five years, bro. It's over. Like you're gonna think a thought and that shit's gonna be, it's gonna be like, it's gonna tell you in your head, like, do you want to confirm?

[01:22:50] And then in your head, you're gonna go, yeah. And then it's gonna just buy it.

[01:22:52] Speaker 7: Like, I'm gonna neur link chicken nuggets to your house in a few years. You're just gonna think Jake still owes me chicken nuggets. It's gonna hit, hit my neural link. My neural links gonna hit DoorDash, dude, it's gonna be there.

[01:23:08] Speaker: We do, we give each other permission, we give each other, right? Access permissions to each other's neural links. And dude, oh wow, would that fucking William, imagine if fucking William had right access to your neural thing, dude. He'd fucking, you fucking kill

[01:23:21] Speaker 8: yourself. Get outta

[01:23:22] Speaker 7: my brain.

[01:23:23] Speaker 8: You'd fucking kill yourself within a week, dude.

[01:23:28] Speaker 2: No, I, I'd be curious what William would do in there. Yeah. I don't even know if he's still on the call or not, but, um, well, I think he hopped back. Hopped back on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess I don't know how you guys doing on time? I need to, to drop. It's been a pleasure though. Yeah, dude. Lets get the hell outta here.

[01:23:46] Y'all, y'all have a good weekend, man. Good man.

[01:23:49] Speaker: Talk soon.

[01:23:49] Speaker 2: All enjoy. Fucking

[01:23:50] Speaker: every, everybody fucking sign off, dude.

[01:23:52] Speaker 2: Fucking fucking Nick, dude. Fucking talk.

[01:23:56] Speaker: Yeah,

[01:23:57] Speaker 2: that's Europeans needs to get some sleep.

[01:23:59] Speaker: Yeah,

[01:23:59] Speaker 2: mate. Fucking stop complaining about America. Get your ass to sleep.

[01:24:04] Speaker 11: Yeah. This is

[01:24:04] Speaker 2: shopline.com.

[01:24:05] Speaker: What is Shopline?

[01:24:06] Why are you always, I don't even know what shopline is.

[01:24:09] Speaker 11: shopline.com man. It's a real player. It's a real player in the game.

[01:24:13] Speaker 8: What is it? Why are you always talking about it? I don't understand what it is, dude. Well, it's the Chinese Shopify. Okay. So how have you not seen it?

[01:24:23] Speaker 11: No, no, no. I don't. 'cause they're, they're, they're, they're in a legal battle right now.

[01:24:26] We shop. Oh, they're, they copied. They copied, they copied. Clone.

[01:24:33] Speaker: Yo, why is China always copying shit, dude? Like, what the fuck?

[01:24:38] Speaker 11: Wait, talent do? So a favor, man. Spend like 10 minutes going through their docks. Okay. They've got down to like, they use handlebars instead of liquid, like down to scene design. Like everything's a clone.

[01:24:51] But does it have like a shit load of functionality? Like No, no, no, no. No, bro. It is. It is Shopify. No, Shopify. It's the exact same. No, listen, listen. They copy fucking everything. It's like I'm talking now down to like the, the theme customizer. They don't have markets. Don't tell

[01:25:11] Speaker: me they have markets and B2B pricing.

[01:25:13] I'll lose my shit.

[01:25:14] Speaker 11: Everything.

[01:25:15] Speaker: No fucking way, dude. Your buy month, it's, how have you not seen it? That was a big, it was quite a big thing. I don't, I seen him tweet about it and I didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. I never heard this shit. The

[01:25:26] Speaker 11: link, you gotta flow the links mark. The links. The links are important.

[01:25:31] Speaker: Alright, boss, I'll follow the fucking links, dude. Jesus Christ. On the phone, on the phone. This episode is brought to you by shopline.com. Fucking listen. Fucking listen. Fucking fuck hook deck. This is brought to you by shopline.com. Fucking China does it Better Fucking China. Does it better get

[01:25:50] Speaker 11: safe? You are gonna season to see us, guaranteed.

[01:25:53] Are you kidding? Yeah, bro. It is over man. It's over. Cool. Cook. No, of course not. Wait, who's

[01:25:59] Speaker: cease? And desisting Who? The, the, the, the shop line is, or Shopify is?

[01:26:03] Speaker 11: Chauffer chauffer will call man, they'll, they'll send you have a little legal document they like. No

[01:26:07] Speaker: fucking way bro. Are you serious? No, I'm not serious.

[01:26:13] Fucking, I mean, you wanna

[01:26:14] Speaker 8: wake up and your partner account is gonna disabled tomorrow.

[01:26:18] Speaker: Exactly, dude. Nah, I've gotten in some legal scenarios in the past. Alright, you guys have a good one, man. I'll see y'all. Bye. Fucking cheers. Bye.

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